Before I start this review, let me be honest about it. I’ve agonised over this review. I have wondered whether to post it. I have given it plenty of thought. However, the conclusion I have come to is that I’m not about to doubt my integrity as a blogger by posting a review that is not true. So, here goes!
Some of you may remember my review of Ovusense Realtime Fertility Monitor back in January. If you need a refresher, click HERE. I have now used Ovusense for four cycles in total and here is my honest opinion of a product that I believe promises the Earth and delivers absolutely nothing. It has earned the dubious nickname of “ovunonsense” with me.
Cycle one, as I’m sure you all remember from my original blog, Ovusense predicted nothing and didn’t confirm ovulation until three days after it happened. I thought this was a blip as sometimes these things don’t catch on right away. The spiel on the Ovusense website promises “OvuSense predicts ovulation in real-time in each cycle, and detects the
Cycle two – Four days post ovulation and no confirmation from Ovusense…
exact day of oulation with 99% accuracy. In just two weeks, OvuSense can tell you when you are going to ovulate, and then calculate the exact day for you with 99% accuracy. Only OvuSense can calculate this much personal information about your cycle with this much accuracy.” So, how did it do the following cycles? Cycle two -no prediction. Confirmed ovulation five days after it happened. Cycle three – no prediction. Confirmed ovulation SEVEN days after it happened. Cycle four – PREDICTION! Machine wiped all of my data one day after I ovulated. The prediction was six days out and it never confirmed it. The reason it didn’t confirm it is because I stopped using the thing and got out my £3 thermometer.
During my time using the machine, it broke twice. On the second cycle of using it, it just wouldn’t switch on. The Ovusense team got me a new machine within forty eight hours (Which I thought was fab!) and I sent back the old one to be analysed. I’ve never heard anything about what went wrong with it. Cycle four, the (new) machine got an error and wiped all of my data. That’s two breaks in four cycles. This machine is THREE HUNDRED POUNDS. New products have blips, yes, and this product is very new to the market, but two breaks in four cycles?! The team are generally very good at dealing with breaks, but don’t mention it on the group. Oh no. Don’t mention it on the Facebook group.
More about the Facebook group. Ovusense run a Facebook group that is misleadingly called “PCOS Fertility Support”. I say misleading, because really the whole group is one big sales pitch for Ovusense. The main admin is on there almost 100% of the time, offering “support” and “bumping” posts that help show the machine in a good light. There’s lots of pregnancies in the group at present, but only those achieved with the help of Ovusense get mentioned and the ladies congratulated. Dare to say that you got pregnant without the help of Ovusense and you’re not important. Say anything negative about the machine and your post will be deleted. Myself and another member were called “bullies” on the group for pointing out some flaws with the machine. One particular admin on the group is so adamant that the machine is perfect that she just will not hear anything else said.
Ovusense state they are 99% accurate with predicting ovulation, but many women on the group get no prediction at all or confirmation despite proving that they ovulate. Ovusense’s own paperwork quotes a study that says they are 94% effective, so not sure where the 99% figure comes from. Frighteningly, I know of two occasions where Ovusense has “confirmed” ovulation that was proven to not have happened. In one of the cases, they persistently blamed the user, telling her that she must be using it incorrectly or it must be something wrong with her. Telling her that it might be the vitamins that she was taking, despite her only taking what the group’s nutritionist had recommended. Eventually, she grew tired of the machine and its drama and got her money back. Funnily enough she, like me, is blocked from their Facebook empire.
More on the group. Generally, it is a great group with a wonderful group of admins. It’s a very supportive group and an interesting one too as there are lots of women with lots of very complex health conditions. However, it is also very heavily administrated. No one can give out medical advice except for their fertility nurse, who is hardly ever there but is always contactable by email. However, the main admin and Ovusense saleswoman doles out bad advice like there’s no tomorrow. Just a few wonderful snippets of advice that I have heard on there – “if it says you ovulated – you have! Congratulations!“, “why not get bloods done on the day of ovulation to confirm that it happened?“, “I don’t think you have to be that accurate about which days you take clomid” and my personal favourite, which seems to be being bandied around a fair bit at present “after having a baby, you can use Ovusense to prevent pregnancy” – fat lot of good that would do with it telling you ovulation has occurred several days later! I envisage a fair few whoopsie babies in the future of Ovunonsense users. Another “great” piece of advice is “wait until 20 days post ovulation to test so you limit the chance of a chemical pregnancy“. That made me sad, as a chemical pregnancy, or early miscarriage, will happen whether or not you know about it and surely it’s better to know if you keep having them, so that you can do something about it?
After saying something on the group regarding the inaccuracies of Ovusense, I received the following email from their main admin and salesperson on the group.
“Laura
Your comments really aren’t helpful in our group. The negativity you seem to have towards our product is really surprising. This is purely a business relationship we have and I’m sorry that you don’t seem to value the opportunity.
As said, if you are unhappy with our product we will gladly have it back.
I have deleted your comment.”
I spent some time composing my reply to this snarky email. She had sent me a previous one reminding me that their contract with mumsnet was up and I didn’t “have to” blog about the machine any more, but I chose to ignore that. Anyhow, here was my reply, which is copied the CEO of Ovusense into.
Hi,
The “negativity” comes from use of the product. It is my personal opinion which has been made by how the product works. The information I have shared on the group is factual from my experience of using ovusense,
I’m going to be honest here. After three years of trying to conceive, you had an easy customer here, I wanted it to work. I wanted it to be accurate and I wanted it to help. The original ad says Ovusense will “predict ovulation within two weeks of use” or similar. The fact that it doesn’t do this for all people is disappointing. Believe me, trying to organise a sperm donor with irregular cycles is an absolute nightmare, and I hoped that Ovusense would help with this. As I have reported, it hasn’t helped at all.
In fact, the second cycle I used ovusense, when I got a positive OPK and my body signs said ovulation was imminent, you told me that I should trust only ovusense and that OPKs don’t work for “most” women with PCOS. You essentially told me to stop using OPks and trust the machine. That cycle, it was 5dpo before ovusense confirmed ovulation for me. I would show you the original thread, but of course it has been deleted from the group. At 4dpo ovusense told me “ovulation today” before then telling me the following day “you ovulated on “date five days before” “. As I’m sure you know, an egg only has a 24 hour window to be fertilised, so by the time ovusense told me “ovulation today” it was long gone. The first cycle I used it, it did the same but at 3dpo. The most recent cycle, it didn’t confirm anything until 7dpo…
I am going to discuss this all in a blog as that was what I was provided with the machine to do. As a blogger I do not pander to brands. I’m not a blogger to get “free stuff” or to make business connections. I blog for me. I am not for one moment going to write anything untrue about the machine and I am not about to jeopardise my integrity by claiming it does something that it doesn’t. Yes, the temps are more accurate than “BBT”, but the way I see it is that this machine doesn’t do anything that a £3 thermometer and vaginal temping doesn’t do. Yes, vaginal temping on waking is just a “spot test” but it’s enough to produce a pattern and enough to confirm ovulation.
It upsets me that there are a lot of women in the group who know nothing about their body and they are told “trust the machine” when you all know full well that this machine often doesn’t predict like it should. This means a lot of women may miss their window because they are being told to trust something that might not be accurate for them. Constantly telling people that OPKs don’t work for women with PCOS is very counterproductive to those trying to conceive. Yes, I am aware that they may be inaccurate for up to 75% of women with PCOS, but that means they do work for minimum 25%. So a blanket “they don’t work” policy is unhelpful.
Also, I’ve noticed that any negative feedback or problems with the machine are quickly deleted from the group. This is outrageous. No product is perfect, but sometimes the most important thing is how criticism is dealt with. Sending snarky emails and deleting anything negative isn’t helpful. Ovusense has a great system behind it where if a machine is faulty, a new one will be supplied. Very few companies supply a replacement so quickly. But nobody knows about this because these comments are deleted from the group. It’s very dishonest to try and make the product look “perfect” when in fact it has its problems like all new products do.
I hope that helps. I have no doubt that this email will be ignored or taken as “negative” but it is an honest opinion from someone who has used the product. I haven’t pulled these opinions out of thin air. They have come from using the product for several cycles. I know I’m not the only one who feels this way, but concerns from others are ignored in much the same way that mine have been up to now.
I think this could be a great product, but at the moment it isn’t worth the money at all in my opinion. Listening to concerns and being open and honest in the group rather than blaming customers would be a good start. I may well send back the product after this cycle. Do not send stamps as you don’t have my current address. Laura
Did I receive a reply? An acknowledgement? Nope. Not a sniff. Nothing from the admin and nothing from the CEO. And THAT is the main problem with Ovusense. No product is perfect. This product is very far from perfect, but a good company is a transparent company and Fertility Focus are anything but transparent. Just a question about how the machine works will get you snarky responses. Saying that it hasn’t worked properly for you will get your post deleted and eventually get you banned from their group. They expect women who have been struggling with infertility for some time to immediately put their trust and (and three hundred pounds) into this machine that does nothing that a three pound thermometer doesn’t do. Yes, it takes your temperature every five minutes, but in my opinion that it totally unnecessary when one temperature on waking will do enough to produce a pattern.
I hope that in the future they develop this product and make it more user friendly and worth the money, but at the moment I genuinely would not recommend Ovunonsense to my worst enemy.
I was supplied this product for the purpose of review. As always, this is my honest opinion and has not been influenced by any payment, promotion or free product.
Papa, Eden & Me 
Pingback: REVIEW – Ovusense Fertility Monitor (Part One) | Laura and Amy's Making a Baby Adventure
Ovusense didnt work for me either. It kept recording my temperature off the chart, even after af.
It confirmed i ovulated but was clearly wrong as i didnt get my period without using something to induce it. I was also blocked from their Facebook group cos i had concerns which i expressed, but they were removed, along with me.
Oh dear, how extremely frustrating! I’m glad you’re blogging on it to get information out there to other women who are struggling with it. It’s horrible to feel like it’s something won’t with you rather than the machine!
This review is spot on in my experience. I unfortunately paid for this product as everything on their website looked so positive (and if I’m honest pretty scary saying how little chance you have to get pregnant etc which is enough to make any desperate woman who has been ttc for any length of time part with £300). Looking at the references they provided I thought it had been well researched. I have subsequently been unable to find the full details of any of their references as they were conference presentations rather than peer reviewed published papers in renowned journals. The abstracts I can find however were studies carried out in very small numbers of women, 13 women in fact, and the results don’t show where they got their 99% accuracy figure from. So my assumption is that the 99% comes from their own unpublished data which will never be as reliable as independently reviewed data.
My own experience of using ovusense was that it was very comfortable to use and I didn’t have any problems with my machine breaking, which from being on the forums I realised was a very common theme (the admin said 5% faulty machines but from the number of women on the group having issues I can’t believe it wasn’t higher), although these posts asking about it breaking were deleted very fast. However, it didn’t predict my ovulation but told me 5 days later that I had ovulated. Luckily I was using opks and oral temping with a thermometer so knew that I had ovulated so I didn’t miss my window. I luckily got pregnant. However if I had been putting my faith in ovusense, as the website and admins of the support group tell you to, I wouldn’t be.
The worst part of ovusense for me was the ‘support’ on the forums. I quickly realised any post saying anything even slightly negative about the product was deleted. I posted multiple times asking them to be transparent and not to delete posts from other ladies that said they were having problems with it so that we could all learn from these problems and people who were deciding whether or not to buy one could make an informed decision. My posts were deleted to begin with with no response, but in the end I was told I was being a bully to the admin and told to leave the group.
We all expect new products to have teething issues. We also know that humans are very different and in medicine products are not going to work the same way for everyone. If these facts had in any way been acknowledged by the company rather than buried (and blatantly lied about) I would have felt very differently about the product and might still be feeling positive about it. As it is any positives about the machine have been erased by the lack of professionalism shown by the company and what I quite frankly feel is taking advantage of vulnerable, desperate women.
My advise to other women would be to chart your own oral (or vaginal) temps, cervical mucous and use opks if they work for you and not to put your faith or money into this machine.
This company should be ashamed of themselves.
Firstly, for not dealing with criticism appropriately. I know no one likes receiving it but as a company you need to embrace it and be seen to deal with it. Their behaviour so far, is completely unprofessional – especially by the fact they haven’t even replied to an email.
Secondly, by the sounds of it, for expecting a positive review in exchange for your freebie. Again, they shouldn’t be expecting positive feedback just because they gave someone something for free or engaged in a business relationship.
And thirdly, and most importantly, for giving inaccurate advice. I feel for the vulnerable women who are listening to these guys – they’re clearly getting the wrong information and therefore wasting their time. I dread to think how many women think there’s something wrong when really this bloody machine is telling them incorrect info.
You should be proud of yourself for being so honest – a lot of bloggers feel obliged to be positive as they’re being paid/get free stuff. I hope that other ladies find this post before making the mistake in buying this god awful machine.
I would have felt quite hopeful about a product like this but it seems they have a long way to go!
I’m glad I read this. I was looking at getting this machine, but after speaking with you a while ago regarding the product I decided, why not, give it a try no harm can come. To say that it has been difficult is a understatement. They wouldn’t let my purchase it from the UK as an Australian supplier would have the product within a week (they just partnered up with an Australian supplier). That was 3 months ago. STILL no further communication from them, and when there is communication it is only to tell me that they Australian supplier will have it “soon” and I still can not purchase it from the UK (the price in Australia will be close to $720). Unfortunately the customer service and terrible replying and lack of communication prompted me not to buy this product and even though I have had issues getting in touch with them I was STILL considering it. Thanks to this post, I no longer feel like I need it. Like you said, your $3 thermometer does the trick.
I think it’s a shame they target a demographic who are eager to try anything to get pregnant yet make promises their product can not clearly keep.
Yeah, based on your posts were you mentioned it before, it sounded like it wasn’t super great. Based on what you said about how it worked, I was kind of surprised that it said it could predict with such accuracy (as labs are normally used for that much precision, R.E.’s aren’t idiots and if there were a cheaper/easier way…).
I’m glad they didn’t charge you for it at least. I’d mail it back to them with a negative review if I were you. It’s a hunk of junk and probably needs to be recycled properly which may cost a fee.
I did not personally use this product. However, I have been privy to Laura’s considerable struggles with it over these months. This thing is about as useful for predicting ovulation as a butter knife is for opening tin cans. She invited me to the facebook group, and I witnessed first hand posts saying ANYTHING other than glowing reviews being swiftly deleted. The amount of misinformation was STAGGERING! I had to quickly quit the group because I was getting so angry I couldn’t even look at it. DO NOT BUY THIS THING! Not only will you be frustrated, your friends will be frustrated FOR YOU. Good job, Laura, for telling it how it is. I hope you save a lot of ladies a lot of money!
This will save a lot of women a great deal of heartache. Thanks for your honesty.
Another company taking advantage of people at a vulnerable time just to make money. I’m glad you gave such an honest review and I hope people get to read this xx
Thank you for sharing Laura. I know how much you agonized over writing this, but I am glad that you tried to post on the facebook page and reached out to the CEO and the snarky lady in showing the fault in their product.
BBT thermometer – £3, Fertility Friend VIP membership – $10. Ovulation strips from eBay -£3
Money saved not buying into ovunonsense’s gimmick – approx £288. Bargain 😉
I was given a 50% off code which I was initially greatful for. my posts also got deleted if they were negative. I combined to the CEO about the failing of ovusense and the way people are treated by some of the ovusense team, they refunded me fully! Then I left the group for a while but when I tried to rejoin as I needed advice they blocked me from returning.
Perfect review of a shoddy product! As you know my experience was the same. I have pcos, irrugalar cycles and cannot use opks, I was a perfect case and perfect pray for it. Being in Australia I had to order from overseas which in total would cost nearly eight hundred dollars, but after many years failing I would do anything. Not once cycle did it record in total, it had a false reading of ovulation which I confirmed was wrong with bloods yet they still argued with me that I was somehow doing something wrong with it. Two broken sensors, a broken machine, missing constant days, I literally threw it in the bin. No one should buy this and I am so happy you posted this review.
Reblogged this on Fertility Doll and commented:
I haven’t been able to post in a while but I think honest reviews are really important in a world where everyone is trying to make money from infertility and our desperation to get two pink lines. Companies sometimes sell hope and it doesn’t come cheap! That’s why I’m sharing this to raise awareness. Afterall It’s always good to look at positives and the negatives of a product before investing so much.
I have not used this product but I have to say I am shocked at its cost given the photos of the display that you have shared. It looks like something from one of the first personal computers in the last 90s, not a product that’s crazy expensive and new on the market circa 2015.
So nice to see someone else write honestly about these things. I had a similar experience with the ClearBlue Easy Fertility Monitor. And a mess of other things. Including peanuts. (I know, I know.)
Glad you posted this. It seems to be the only real review of this product I can find! All others were obviously paid for since the verbiage that was used is quoted from their website. I was thinking of getting this product but now won’t purchase it all. The claim they can predict your ovulation day ahead of time every month for people with pcos is virtually impossible. I find temping every morning pretty easy and after a couple of months I am able to predict my window of ovulation and confirm when I did ovulate. Also, I stopped sugar and am taking vitamin d supplements and have found my period is getting more consistent and shorter (from 37 to 31 days now). Thanks again!
We were given the product for free for the purpose of a review, but I felt I had to be honest with my readers. It doesn’t do anything that temping doesnt
Thank you for your honest review. Although I doubt it, -I hope Ovusense read this: I do not even buy a cellphone with a company that is not willing to discuss problems with their products! So Ovusense is no longer on my wish list… A very good idea, but keep on developing, test it among users, and do not promise anything that does not stick!
-From Norway-
Ovusense did read this. They sent me an email regarding it after blocking me from their group. They told me “we don’t want to discuss the specific issues raised in your blog” and then asked me what I thought they should do to improve. Needless to say I didn’t reply as I said all they needed to know in the post…
Most companies realise that consumer feedback is one of the most important marketing tools. Ovusense, in my opinion, are just taking advantage of vulnerable women with a product that doesn’t do anything more than what a thermometer does.
This was going to be our last step before in-office insemination and fertility meds. I don’t feel as excited or trusting as I did before, but am at a loss as to what to do now. Any other options besides temp and OPKs?
I’m not sure Hun. Might be worth discussing with a doctor. This machine doesn’t do anything that a £3 thermometer doesn’t, though. There’s just no need to take temp every 5 mins.
All the very best of luck x
Do you think a new monitor will help my wife conceive? We have been trying for 10 months and have found a review on http://www.mostaccuratepregnancytest.com/best-fertility-monitors-compared/ and have been leaning toward trying the clearblue digital. Have you heard any info on the clearblue as well? Just trying to find the best monitor at the moment
Thanks!
The clear blue wasn’t accurate for me unfortunately, I would see a dr
If you’re concerned
I love to see an honest product review – not enough bloggers out there with the balls (totally no pun or otherwise intended there, I promise) to do it. Sorry it was a tonne of crap.
I always think it’s better to be honest. Especially when it comes to companies like this that prey on vulnerable and desperate women.
Thank you Laura and thanks ladies for posting your experiences. I had considered purchasing this, but I spent a lot of time looking for honest reviews about the product first, especially since Ovusense cost over $400 in the states. That’s money that can go towards something else!! I’ve made a list of products to research and I’ve been crossing them off my list. I’m part of the group, but I never posted. I actually don’t use Facebbok much if at all. I will be leaving that group. Nothing bugs me more than people that delete posts for the sake of saving face. If anything, it makes me think they are hiding something and trying to avoid a lawsuit of false advertisement. I’ll stick with my thermometer and OPKs and cervix checking. At least I know the OPKs I’m using work and I finally found my O day.
So glad to read this all! My machines broke and did not work.
They sent a replacement and when that did not work told me that
I was basically going in to menopause ( they told me I was not ovulating anymore)
which is basically the same thing. Truly awful company. Glad you published an honest
review!
The is absolutely horrendous! I’m not sure how they can make that kind of diagnosis without being your doctor!
Thanks so much for your honest opinion!!! We need more people like you. You’ve helped me to save money and spared my feelings. Reviewing their website and seeing “ALL” positives, even though they are few, there was no doctor who backed this product, as you stated, not one hint of negativity…too good to be true.
Be blessed!
Thanks for reading. Genuinely, I only do honest reviews. I think it’s a disservice to readers to only present one side of the story 🙂
hi , i actually think i have a problem with the ovusense as well. i just purchased it and my ovulation kits and fertility monitory says that i am at high and peak…but the ovusense indicates i am nowhere near…so i am confused on who to trust or not. and i do not want to miss my window….
This review is a couple of years old now, so their algorithm may have changed. But personally, I would trust anything other than ovusense
oh wow i didn’t even know it was that old! but yeah… I’m really confused should i even trust them or not. i don’t want to miss my window…is just confusing when my opk all says smiley faces and high and peaks while the ovusense is not even near ovulation lol. so I’m just so confused because I’m doing a IUI procedure and its important for me to know when i ovulate.
I would 100% follow the OPKs to be honest. That’s what I did. We used a known donor so we’re in a similar position that it was SUPER important to know when I was going to ovulate. I trusted the OPKs. Best of luck xx
Aiden, do you have PCOS? If you do, you can’t use OPKs, because the hormones that OPKs measure are out of whack in people with PCOS. Your only real option to track ovulation is tracking your temperature and cervical mucus. If you have PCOS, you could be getting false positives on your OPKs. This happened to me, as I tried for months before finding out I had PCOS. That’s why Ovusense is heavily focused on selling to people with PCOS. I haven’t tried Ovusense, so don’t know if it works or not. I just know OPKs don’t work for people with PCOS.
Hi. I have PCOS. I used OPKs just fine.
They don’t work for about 25% of people with PCOS apparently. So it’s something worth being aware of and I always say to back up with other methods anyway, but it’s certainly not a blanket thing.
🙂
Thank you so much for posting your honest thoughts about ovusenue… I was going to purchase it but will definitely stay away after reading the experiences above. Many thanks xxxx
Honesty is always the best policy x
Thank you SO MUCH for your honesty. I was half way though purchasing the product. Thought I’d just do a quick search for a honest review or two before finishing the process. I’m so glad I did!
It’s not the potential inaccuracies of the device stopping me, just the attitude of the company!
Hopefully a similar device is released soon.
Obviously I haven’t tried the new version but yes, the attitude was terrible. I don’t know if it still is as they have me blocked on all of their channels…
Best of luck with your conception xx
Am glad i came across this, was at the verge of purchasing, but could you please advice on when to start temping for ovulation?
I used to temp from the start of my cycle to the end. Temping won’t predict ovulation. It just confirms it.
Hi, I have just come across your review and I seem to be experiencing the same problem. Opk says I’m ovulating, I’ve even had the tingly boobs and ovulation cramps but the monitor hasn’t confirmed ovulation. I know they’re not always correct for pcos ladies but I feel like they’re more accurate than this stupid machine. I’ve been distraught all week thinking I wasn’t ever going to ovulate until I had symptoms and took the opk, now the machine is heading for the bin.
Try traditional temping too. That always gave me a more accurate picture 🙂
Thank you I was going to purchase this Monday after following the Facebook group.u thought I could trust everything I was reading and it now makes sense. I thought this must be ha fantastic device no one has a bad word to say about it and i no its genuine as its face book with real people so it cant all be made up. How wrong g i was you have just saved me 200 quid
No worries. I will say this review is coming up for four years old now, so I would think maybe there had been some changes. But I stand by that a normal thermometer can do the same job.
And I hate how they tout themselves as “as effective as IVF” when iVF is a TOTALLY different thing.
But I cant find any other reviews. And the Facebook page I think is the same as there is very limited info on bad experiences and there is a couple of people who are quick to message someone who says it’s not working and they say give it time. They also say don’t use opk I cant Imagine it would have changed a whole lot by some people comments still saying it’s not finding when I ovilated
I don’t trust the company as a whole if I’m honest. But like I said, my info is four years old. I haven’t had anything to do with them since writing this and am no longer in their groups.
Hi Laura, I did a web search and found this page, Thank you for writing this, Unfortunately I didn’t find a honest review like this before buying the ovusense! I totally agree with what you have said about the product.
my first cycle using ovusense i got a confirmed ovulation days after and since then it has not said i have ovulated once, but i think my temperatures may not be that accurate as my sensor keeps falling out in the night, on their website they say if it falls out then it is not pushed in far enough, which is not true, I always make sure it is, i have seen a few women on my recent searches complaining about the same thing, I keep waking up in the night to put it back so it is also disturbing my sleep. My sensor also broke but the company were very good at sending me a new one, which makes me think it happens a lot. I thought i would get ovusense as opks don’t work for me at all and i was finding it hard to take my temps at the same time every morning but i think i am going to start using my bbt thermometer again. I am so confused and upset to be honest, I am glad i found this blog, Thank you.
I’m so sorry you’ve had the same experience. My advice would be to ask for your money back. I was hoping that improvements had been made since I used it, but it seems not.
The sensor doesn’t accommodate different shaped vaginas at all. One size fits all will never work when it comes to the female body.